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likwyd · Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: tuning the machines

Ok people, I really need help with this. I look everywhere online for a decent way to tune a liner and a shader and don't seem to get just a straight up answer.

I don't have a digital power supply so I don't know exactly how many Hz the machine is running at. All I have a visual of, obviously, is Volts.

The concept of using coins to determine the amount of gap is also throwing me off. Is this literally done by placing the coins between the coil and the armature bar? And is this really a precise way to set the gap?

I'd appreciate ANY help Smile

ink king · Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:35 am Post subject:

lol dont worry if ya throwen off there is no precise way to tune a machine its more of an understanding of the machine and how it works the nickle and dime gap is only a rough guide you want a sligty smaller gap on a liner than a shader to control your speed is easy turn the contact screw in to incrise speed and turn out to slow it down. when your machine is close to 50%duty the armitur bar should have a wavering effect when running trust me you will hear and feel the diffrience sorry to only give ya basics

ink king · Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:54 am Post subject:

cos i am having to post through my phone at the moment it kinda hard to explane something with 512 caricturs that would take at least 800 words to be able to explane it all evan then its all down to personal prefence what works for one will ruin another if you know what i mean...... sorry to double post

moondog · Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:59 am Post subject:

ink king is the one to ask. but i found a few youtube videos that might help you. just youtube tattoo machine tuning. i am learning more about it myself hope it helps.

moondog · Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:01 am Post subject:

likwyd · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Thanks

Thanks guys, I'll check out the YouTube vids. And Ink King, thanks for taking the time to double post from your phone Smile

. Trust me, any basics are better than nothing right now so I appreciate your help.

ink king · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject:

to easy glad to help once you get to know how a machine works and understand the basics of tuneing you will be able to work the rest out with ease and be able to find out what works the best for you.... guess thats the beauty of tattooing no artist is the same

likwyd · Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject:

Yeah I'm hoping. Usually things will fall into place for me easily once I figure some basics out. When I have some time away from the band I'll be able to sit down with my machines and really play around.

We just a new artist set up shop here in town and she's the only licensed artist around. I know her from some of the shows she has come to. I was gonna ask her if I can bring my machines down and have her help me a little. Kinda point me in the right direction. I guess we'll see.

Thanks King Twisted Evil

likwyd · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:38 am Post subject: Is it even the tuning????

Wow, I have just spent the last 4 hours thinking I can figure this tuning out. Is it really this hard or could I really be missing something or....... is my skin just NOT taking the ink???
I am still working on the same tribal piece I did a while back. The outline took just fine but ANYTHING I have attempted with coloring is just not working. Like I said, 4 hours, making the smallest adjustments possible. Surely by now I would have hit the sweet spot!?!

I am so close to throwing in the towel but I just can't. Part of me is saying "what if I just missed one little thing that made all the difference?" And then I'll never know.

Is tuning something you have to do to your own machines, kinda like setting your own sights on a rifle, because everyone else has different preferences?, or can I possibly have someone I know tune them for me?

I'm getting desperate and my arm is getting sore...lol Sad

moondog · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject:

i spent three hours last night on my chest piece. used a 5rs, ans for some reason some of my thick stroke bars; and colors took the ink just fine. but the othrs just wouldnt take the ink. i had a good thtee point stretch plenty of ink. and certain parts just wouldnt take any ink. had my volts perfect. so same situation as you. i think the skin just says @#$% this?. thanks.

now i gotta wait til it heals up again...

likwyd · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: videos

moondog - that sucks man really. And how does that feel working on your own chest?? That's gotta be tricky to watch what you're doing.

So, I totally spaced watching the vids you suggested earlier in the posts. I felt like such a dumbass after watching the first video that came up in the search. Explained everything in seconds. So.... now that I have everything tuned right I guess the next step is to find out if the ink is the problem, or my skin.

I did also notice last night that my black ink was getting dry REAL quick in the tips. Anyone know why that might happen? I even ended up switching to color to see if maybe there was something wrong with my black ink but the color was doing the same thing. Not as fast but it would start to clot up.

I think my next step is to move on to a new tattoo and come back to this one another time. No point in getting frustrated over the methods when it could just be the skin. And there's only one way to find that out!

moondog · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject:

well... try not to laugh too hard but i use a mirror hee hee. it fun as hell. wont be the best job when shes done but at least its pretty much what i wanted. my other tattoos ive done on myself no probem well two so far. but the chest piece i really should stop and go to a shop to finish it. its all free hand.

moondog · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:

[quote="moondog"]well... try not to laugh too hard but i use a mirror hee hee. it fun as hell. wont be the best job when shes done but at least its pretty much what i wanted. my other tattoos ive done on myself no probem well two so far. but the chest piece i really should stop and go to a shop to finish it. its all free hand.[/quote]

hit post reply and see why we might not be taking the ink man, it might be poor three point stretch. which looking back now makes sense. Very Happy

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ink king · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject:

by the sound of things it might your technique and not your machine, moondog the mirror might be whats ruining your tattoo (the whole reversed image thing) when ya put in black or any other color for that matter you want consist deapth and hand speed

zapzapzap · Tattoo lover Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Posts: 81

Post pics please!!! I really want to see what you did to yourself in the mirror!!!!

paullwrt · Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:33 am Post subject:

Using coins to tune a tattoo machine is explained in detail at the below website. Check it out.

Be Scary,

Paul

twisted-east · Tattoo lover Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 91

using the nickle and dime trick works only to a point. to tune a machine you have to know about what makes the machine work. machine tuning comes down to personal preference which is why most people shy away from telling you how exactly this is done but here are some pointers first you have to have the right kind of resistor for the kind of machine you want to set up such as a liner would use a 22uf or 47uf for a shadder you would use like a 67uf secondly comes springs which come in different gauges typically you want a shorter stiffer springs for your liner (20gauge front, 18 gauge rear) and longer softer springs for a shadder (16 gauge front, 18 gauge rear) but along with the different gauges you have to make sure your tension on the spring is correct to much tension you will turn skin in to hamburger meat and to little you wont penetrate the skin this is easily done with a tension scale you can buy from a few suplly places like time machine or huck and spaulding or you can buy fishing scale at a wal-mart or the like (but the fishing scale comes in pounds not grams so you will have to use a converter calculator to make it into grams) for a liner you need 450-475 grams of tension for a shadder you need 375-400 grams of tension if you have to much unscrew the rear spring from the spring saddle and very slightly bend downward align the armature bar back up recheck tension to much just bend it slightly upward but you dont want to do this to much as it will break your spring, third is getting your duty cycle correct easy way to do this without a digital power supply is to put a mark you can see on the side of the spring run your machine you will see the timing spring(front spring) in two different places at once as it moves you want to turn the contact screw up and down until you see a third one right in the middle of the two this will make your duty cycle close as you can eyeball to 50% like you need. hope this helps explain a little more for everyone

ink king · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:23 am Post subject:

[quote="twisted-east"]using the nickle and dime trick works only to a point. to tune a machine you have to know about what makes the machine work. machine tuning comes down to personal preference which is why most people shy away from telling you how exactly this is done but here are some pointers first you have to have the right kind of resistor for the kind of machine you want to set up such as a liner would use a 22uf or 47uf for a shadder you would use like a 67uf secondly comes springs which come in different gauges typically you want a shorter stiffer springs for your liner (20gauge front, 18 gauge rear) and longer softer springs for a shadder (16 gauge front, 18 gauge rear) but along with the different gauges you have to make sure your tension on the spring is correct to much tension you will turn skin in to hamburger meat and to little you wont penetrate the skin this is easily done with a tension scale you can buy from a few suplly places like time machine or huck and spaulding or you can buy fishing scale at a wal-mart or the like (but the fishing scale comes in pounds not grams so you will have to use a converter calculator to make it into grams) for a liner you need 450-475 grams of tension for a shadder you need 375-400 grams of tension if you have to much unscrew the rear spring from the spring saddle and very slightly bend downward align the armature bar back up recheck tension to much just bend it slightly upward but you dont want to do this to much as it will break your spring, third is getting your duty cycle correct easy way to do this without a digital power supply is to put a mark you can see on the side of the spring run your machine you will see the timing spring(front spring) in two different places at once as it moves you want to turn the contact screw up and down until you see a third one right in the middle of the two this will make your duty cycle close as you can eyeball to 50% like you need. hope this helps explain a little more for everyone[/quote]

not meaning to be nasty but alot of the info you have posted almost sounds word for word like some of the you tube vid's i seen a few days back (heard that there was heaps about tattooing thought ild have a look to see if i would learn something there was a few good pointers i do admit if ya can siv thro all crap to get the good stuff lol) im just woundering how long have you been tattooing for? Laughing

twisted-east · Tattoo lover Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 91

i have been tattooing for over 15 years and yes i have seen the vid's that you may be talking about but i was not quoting them and i dont really think that its word for word since i didnt watch the video then post here.
your springs have to have the right amount of tension this is learned over time where you dont need a spring tension gauge and can pretty much feel it by finger pressure until then you will need something to tell you the correct amount of tension. different size springs are also used in different machine setups. you need different rating capacitors for different set ups but there are those out there that will use a 47uf for everything so its not always the case.

all in all just because you watched some guy on a video having the same kind of info doesnt mean that someone is copying it to sound smart and you shouldnt try to belittle info someone gives unless you know for a fact it is false which in this case it is not.

ink king · Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject:

im not trying to belittle you all i was saying is from ya said from the china folded machines and the dot trick and the info on the caps and spring tention measuring (that was the first time ive ever seen a tattooist use a spring tention gauge) amost sounded like the stuff of you tube. ether wich way i dont care if ya got of youtube or if ya been tattooing for 15 years it good to see artist help other artist out so ya all good in my book. hope ya stick around...........take it easy Very Happy

twisted-east · Tattoo lover Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 91

well have no idea what vid your talking about that would have all that info in it as the only one i have seen only had a guy using a spring tension gauge which have been in use for a long time but it is the only video i have ever seen someone actually using one i believe it was a hildbrant training video on youtube but it is absolutely necessary you have correct spring tension which is gained by bending the spring also using different spring gauges
if you have to much tension then you hit the skin to hard and cause to much trauma to the skin, to little tension you dont penetrate the skin enough or you wind u digging to get it correct thus causing trauma to the skin for someone who has no idea what the correct tension feels like needs a tension gauge
say you have a 20gauge rear spring on your shader and you bend a little up to get the long stroke you need for shading, well now you have just increased the tension of that spring you need a spring tension gauge to tell you if you need to step down a gauge in spring thickness to have the correct tension while maintaining the long stroke if you get what im saying
as for the folded steel on chinese machines its just common sense that when you mass produce machine frames by folding them with a machine there not going to be correct all the time and for a tattoo machine to operate the right way everything has to be correct in the geometry of the frame or everything gets thrown off.
the dot trick im assuming you mean inking the side of the spring which is a very old trick

vvmetattoo · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject:

actually, it all depends on the machine . no regulated rules about the voltage and the HZ.

Most tattoo artists have their own experience about how much voltage and HZ for liner and shader.

Anyhow, 6-8v is proper for shader operation while 8-10 is right for liner operation.

More tattoo machine questions, you can refer to vvme.com

or watch the video for your guide.